I hear that generic revenue advice doesn't work for Black creators. The racial pay gap in sponsorships and in book advances is well documented. Author Frederick Joseph wrote last year about the "expectation of free Black labor" when it comes to paid subscription growth on Substack. Patreon earnings were analyzed in an academic study last month and those researchers found it helps the "rich-get-richer," by reinforcing power dynamics already at play in the world.
We know about the problems. I wanted to know more about the solutions. Black creators can't wait for the eradication of systemic racism to earn a living. The rest of us can't afford to miss out on their work. And there are lots of Black creators thriving despite many forces designed to push them down.
One of them is Michelle Jackson. Michelle runs Creators Getting Paid, a multi-channel media company with a mission to "help online content creators strategize, build and grow at least one recurring income stream in their business." Her work explores the strategies, tactics, tools and mindsets creators need to make money online. Michelle's been an internet creator herself since 2012. She's also an author, a podcaster, a radio host, a personal finance pro and a local tourism expert for her home state of Colorado.
Michelle is a refreshing monetization expert because she's not going to tell you to get more consistent or which platform you absolutely can't miss out on. She's always aware of market and tech shifts, but she's tuned into her inner compass in a way we rarely see from online entrepreneurs. The creator economy is a reactive space and Michelle manages to quiet that noise, taking with her only what serves her vision. Her guidance about developing revenue streams "they cannot take away from you" is critical information. Her message about building for "longevity" is one more of us need to sit with.
This interview has been edited for length and clarity. Note that Michelle is from Denver, Colorado and I am from Atlanta, Georgia so this discussion is likely most relevant to US-based creators but there's much here to consider no matter your race or location.
—Lex
Lex Roman: I hear a lot from Black creators that it's different for them. I'll see people on Threads say, "This advice sounds like it's for white people," or "This doesn't work for Black creators."
I'm curious to start with what the scene is like for Black creators right now?
Michelle Jackson: That is a tricky question, given that we are in a moment where, in my view, most Black creator content is deemed "brand unsafe." Things where we're naturally advocating for an issue, maybe we've built a community to address a thing or to be represented in some kind of way. When you're in an environment where what you're doing is inherently thought of as brand unsafe, then, the headwinds that already existed are hurricanes.
When you are considered brand unsafe, it's a heavy lift to get people who are very noncommittal in the brand space. Maybe you want to collaborate with a company. If they're real noncommittal about political stances, etc, then it's going to be very difficult to get them to buy into you.
LR: Do you feel like that's true for creators that don't touch politics, so to speak, as well?
MJ: There's a big difference in the idea of touching politics versus just representing who you are. It's a very clear nuance if you're to look at what people are doing, who they're showing in their content, the language used, the cities represented, the spaces represented. I'm going to lean towards there is a difference and be very unapologetic about that. There is a difference.
LR: So, do I have this right? Are you saying that Black creators are inherently creating political content just because they're representing themselves?
MJ: That's not what I'm saying. Actually, that question highlights everything that I'm talking about. We're literally just creating what we're creating. But the perception is that it's inherently political. We're just people doing people stuff, but we're Brown, we're Black. Maybe we're just a Black nerd and we want to frolic and be whimsical. And because of the powers that be, the perception is that we're being inherently political. The problem is the perception of the eye of the beholder.
Finding your opportunity
LR: Given that reality, where do you see the opportunity right now for Black creators? Is it in the brand deal space? In the event space? On a certain platform? Where are the opportunities you're seeing right now?
MJ: The opportunities that are presenting themselves are specific to developing good services, spaces, products, projects that are filling the gap. Gaps that are being created by all of the stuff that's being withdrawn from us.
A good example would be conferences. I like to attend a good conference, but there are definitely conferences that I'm not going to go to because they don't feel brand safe to me, right? Their speakers don't speak to me. There's a distinct lack of diverse voices for whatever reason.
There are opportunities to create spaces that are welcoming, that are covering topics, issues and conversations that people are having, that may be considered brand unsafe to these other folks. That's why they've quietly, not so quietly, pulled that kind of representation and those conversations off the table. Doubling down on people who really support us, and also developing our own products, goods and services, is the most important thing we should do.
Selling subscriptions
LR: Related to developing our own products and services, a lot of journalists are turning to the subscription model. They're turning to their audience given just the state of the economy. You mentioned in your last podcast about Substack that you feel like subscriptions are hard to sell. I've heard that a lot from Black creators, that they don't feel like their audience is gonna buy their subscription, that they find subscriptions are hard to sell. Do you think it's harder for Black creators to sell subscriptions?
MJ: I don't think so. I don't think subscriptions specifically are hard to sell because we're Black. I think that subscriptions are hard to sell, period. We're dealing with subscription fatigue. I have subscription fatigue. The general person out there has subscription fatigue. You have to make a really compelling argument as to what is going to be behind the paywall.
The other piece is the tool that you're using. I was growing my subscriptions at a nice, steady clip. That was great. Then, I realized I had friends who were making like 100k a year on the platform and they were having a lot of issues. Why the hell would I double down on this if I know that I'm gonna have these issues coming down the pipe? My friends are jumping off these platforms.
One of the biggest things I've spent a lot of time working on is finding a tool that will allow me to provide different payment options in a way that meets my brand ethos. I have always wanted a lot of "pay what you want." Pay what you want for subscriptions or even pay one time. You decide and we'll call it a day.
I used to do it with coaching. I had one person pay like $600 for an hour. It balanced everything out and I ended up making more money actually. I don't really love doing one-on-one coaching, but when I did it, I loved giving that opportunity to pay what it's worth to you. It opens up your services to people in a way that's accessible to them. The key is don't do this with beginners. It's not going to work because they're not going to understand the value of your time.
How I'm envisioning moving forward is that, for the newsletter subscription, it will be pay what you want. If I average $7 to $8, ideally $10, that's great. I'm also going to offer pay one time. For other products, like my mastermind which is a high ticket product, the price is the price. I don't want to make financial decisions that are going to harm me as I try to figure this out.
Offering more payment options
LR: You just announced you're moving to Kit. Is that what will enable pay what you want?
MJ: Yes, I'll use that for the subscription, but I can't sell the mastermind on Kit because it doesn't have an integration with a tool that I used to think was wildly controversial.
LR: What tool is that?
MJ: Klarna and Afterpay. I am originally from the personal finance space. I am very skittish about a lot of financial tools. It took me a very, very, very long time to warm up to the idea of using Klarna or Afterpay. But then, I realized people are using that to pay for their tickets to go see their favorite hockey team.
What I understand about having access to those kinds of tools is people can also adjust the payments to something that is reasonable for them. For my high ticket product, I do have payment plans, but they're not like $30 a month. It's more like, let's get this done in three months. I don't wanna be in people's pockets. I don't want that responsibility, but I do want to be aware that payment plans make sense for a larger percentage of people than we want to admit. It's smart business to have the option available to people.
I'll use Flodesk to offer that because Flodesk does have that integration. That's part of the reason why I was hoping to make that Flodesk work for everything. But it's just not robust enough in certain ways. It works for my romance novels, but not for Creators Getting Paid.
Balancing different revenue streams
LR: Tell me about your sort of your revenue mix looking forward. What are the different revenue streams you're prioritizing?
MJ: I'm candidly gonna say money's been low this year because I haven't been selling as much. I really would like to get the subscriptions growing again. I love having the subscriptions. They're pretty straightforward. My churn is very low. Once people are subscribed, they're on there for a long time.
I am launching a newsletter building live challenge. I'll test it out and see how that goes but I'm thinking that's going to be a regular thing that I do. A signature product.
There's the mastermind that I'm very excited about.
I would also like to host an event here in Denver. I was hoping to do it in winter, but signs are clear it's going to be spring, based on the poll. These are all specific to Creators Getting Paid.
I do also have other projects. So when I'm not doing this, I am back to writing romance. And when COVID hit, that was the money I was living off of. I love romance money because you just write a book quietly under your pen name. There's a whole world they live in. You market it and you're out, right? I'm getting back into doing that.
And then, I have my Colorado website, which is affiliate focused. I have Viator affiliate conversions, travel payouts, brand partnerships and ad revenue. This year, I'll be speaking at the Colorado governor's tourism conference. So that's not a small project. It's starting to gain a little momentum.
I also am a guest co-host (paid) for City Cast Denver.
I have multiple things. I don't recommend that you have this many things going on. It's a bad idea and it slows down your progress.
LR: Yeah, but that said, it's pretty common for creators to be juggling multiple projects and multiple revenue streams, especially as they're testing. Is this gonna pay off? Is that gonna pay off? How do you balance these projects and prioritize them?
MJ: Well, the first thing was I stopped at four projects. I have one project, which is actually my oldest one, which I did not mention. That one's kind of on hiatus. There's no capacity to do it regularly. The romance writing is fun. It's easy. You do it when you're on the bus going to the mountains or traveling. It doesn't feel like work to me. Once the book is written, everything's pretty straightforward.
Creators Getting Paid —I'm on a cadence now. I publish at least 1 newsletter a week. It's averaging 2 now that I've got the right tools set up.
Have you heard about that rule where you do the work in the time you allot? I don't set aside 14 hours and try to do all that. I try to do 6 hours. I work when I have the capacity. I batch a lot and I schedule a lot. When we're out of summer and I've stopped suffering from the heat, I am so productive. I'm very productive when I'm feeling physically comfortable.
Then, I spend the rest of my time evaluating where the priorities are. What's made me money before? What's not working now? What are the signs that something's come back to life?
It's a lot of moving parts, but not being too rigid about what that looks like is key for me. Your personality also plays into this when you're building online.
LR: You noted four projects is the limit for you. What would your recommendation be for creators in terms of how many to juggle?
MJ: It makes sense to double down on the things that are proven to work. I mentioned I'm getting back into the romance writing. I didn't lose the skills since I last did it. In fact, my marketing skills have improved over the years. Now, I'm better suited to apply them to these projects now in 2026, even though it's been several years since I've published. Double down on the things that bring in the money.
The other thing I would say is develop things that people cannot take away. They cannot take away your knowledge. They cannot take away the books that you wrote. They cannot take away the courses that you develop. Don't be so focused on brand partnerships and ad revenue. What can you control and own in 2026 and beyond? Those are the things that I want Black creators to focus on.
Finding signal for consistent revenue
LR: I love the recs about doubling down on what's making you money and building stuff that they can't take away. A lot of my readers are shifting from service providers into the creator world. Maybe they were a web designer and they want to start a podcast that makes money. One of the challenges that they have is they don't see that signal yet on any of the creator revenue streams so they don't know where to double down. What's your advice for figuring out where that potential might be?
MJ: Most people wildly underestimate the amount of time it takes to build up a consistent revenue stream. Because you have to build up confidence. You have to figure out what the product, good or services that you're developing. You have to tweak it and iterate on it.
Give yourself time. And that's hard to hear because you need money now. You've got bills to pay now. The advice I would give, which is counterintuitive, find yourself the easiest, most fun side hustle possible. Become a barista. Work chill hours, get free coffee. Even if you have savings. That way you're not 100% needing this project to work immediately. It gives you a little more breathing room to experiment.
When I observe creator entrepreneurs, everyone talks about what they're building in the short term. When I'm building something, I'm building it with longevity in mind. I have a two year view and then, maybe another three years out from there.
It's like being a ballerina. You do your barre work every single class, practicing all your ballet skills. You do it over and over again. You never stop doing it. Beyoncé is a good example of this. This woman has been singing since she was eight years old. She has been building a portfolio of work that she references over and over again since she was a child. Just because you built something last year doesn't mean it's gone. Longevity and time is something that we don't talk about enough when it comes to compounding your efforts for making money.
Growing your audience
LR: So, what kinds of activities should creators be focusing on now? What are the barre activities for creators?
MJ: You should be moving people into your ecosystem, into your world. Build a list so that you are able to sell directly to the people that you serve. That is the number one thing that I want Black creators to hear. The number one strategy.
We don't discuss enough the value of owning our list. I'm not sure why this isn't a constant conversation. I was in a mastermind group and I noticed a couple of the people in the group as they worked towards becoming basically millionaires. One of the women had 20 hours that she could allocate to building and growing her business a week. That's all she had. She had kids. So she had 20 hours and she had to make those 20 hours work. And the number one thing that she focused on in those 20 hours was building her list. I'll never forget it. That's all she did was build her list.
Another girl that I know who was not in that mastermind, what she did in her time was she built her list and she doubled down on products that she believed in. She had a very affiliate focused brand in certain respects, but she also built courses. She's now a millionaire. She sails the world with her family.
The first list I built was for my romance novels. I had to figure out a way to sell these books because I use a pen name. I wasn't active on social media. So the only thing I did was focused on my list. I loved it. I would hit send and in 30 seconds, people in South Africa would be like, "Hey, [romance pen name], how are you doing?" 30 seconds. And I was selling my books.
LR: How did you build that list anonymously?
MJ: What I did was I collaborated with other authors. I did a lot of book funnels. My pen name does have a podcast, by the way. But collaborations and book funnels are how I built the list.
LR: You make it sound so simple, Michelle.
MJ: That was it. And they sold. I am going to be doing Pinterest again this year. I used to be about that Pinterest life. I hate all the AI crap on there right now. I think that they're going to probably address that because so many people are unhappy with it, but it's still a really good search engine.
Doubling down on search engines, doing the things that will bring me in front of the people who will engage with what I'm doing. I am launching a YouTube channel too. Each video is an opportunity to get them on my list and sell, right? It's taken a really long time for me to be confident in this way, confident in my skills, confident in messaging, confident in my expertise, but over time, these skill sets and knowledge compound over time.
You do have to market and you do have to sell. And that is something that I think, regardless of color, a lot of people are uncomfortable with. It's a skill you have to work on all the time, regardless of how long you've done it.
Inspiring creators to follow
LR: Which Black creators are you paying attention to? And I'm really interested in folks that are doing somewhat attainable things. So they're maybe full-time creators, but they're not celebrity creators.
MJ: Danielle Desir Corbett who runs Grants for Creators. She's phenomenal. She's my friend. I love the work that she does. I can't rave about her more. I pay for it. I have actually won something because of that resource. That's how I became an Air Media Fellow because she shared it. She has multiple projects. She just launched a Disney website. I like how she markets. It's so natural.
I'm a fan of Angela Hollowell, who's a friend as well. I'm very excited about the one project that is still kind of in its infancy, which is Melanin MVP. This is a space for Black women who love sports. I'm a Black woman who loves sports. I really enjoy her takes on sports and making a space for Black women who are sports enthusiasts to enjoy. She does other projects as well, but that's the one I'm shouting out because I think more people need to know about it.
This creator's not Black, but he's a cousin. He is from New Zealand. He is Pacific Islander. Joe Daymond. I loved the work that he did when he was traveling through the United States, specifically the southern US. His experience of being basically almost the equivalent of a Black man, but in New Zealand, and coming to the US and going to the South and having these cultural experiences that were just so similar, even talking about it, was very moving to me.
I love the coffee shop video series in Brooklyn. There's a cultural conversation happening there. Absolutely love them.
There are a lot of people who are doing really cool shit. And I'm having so much fun supporting their work and discovering what they're doing. We're in a difficult moment, but there is also a lot of opportunity unexpectedly. In that conversation, we have to talk about access to capital. We need to talk about providing tools that allow us to create things that are accessible, but in a way that is not harmful to us as creators. We still have to earn income so that we can continue to provide for the communities that we're building. Leaning on community and into community is definitely something that all creators should be focused on moving forward. There are a lot of conversations I don't want to have online. I don't think it's safe, right? We need those safe spaces to exist.
The most important thing to prioritize
LR: Last question: Was there anything that I didn't ask you that I should have?
MJ: There's so many things that could be asked. A good question to ask is, "Why is it that when Black creators say there's a problem, no one believes that there's a problem?" Specific to building as creator economy entrepreneurs.
I wonder why there's always pushback when we assert that access to individuals who make decisions is not as easy as you would think. Why do we have to always prove that we're not able to get through the door? It's not even emotional. There's data, like 2.7% out of 100%. You know what I mean?
[Editor's note: Michelle isn't referencing a particular stat here, to my knowledge. But here's a stat for you, "Black influencers earn 35% less than their white counterparts"]
Why is it that when people purchase from Black creators, we have to prove that we're worthy of being purchased from more than our colleagues? Ultimately, if I'm selling something that is the cost of a matcha, chill the fuck out. You don't like it? Come on, man. Are you serious? If this $8 thing has upset you, your expectations are unreasonable.
The other thing is that I want us to assert our authority. I don't want us to have to pack 85 things into our $8 product. Email marketer Liz Wilcox sends two email templates a week. That's it. That's the product.
I want to quote her kind of verbatim. This is the first time I've heard a white woman say this so I really loved that she said this. She said, Look, I am the breadwinner for my family. I am taking care of multiple people in my family. I only have so much capacity. I have built out a product that allows me to serve my audience within the capacity that I have.
That's why when you hear me talk about my products—I've got the newsletter. I've got the challenge. I've got the romance books. I've got a lot of things I'm building out where I don't have to show up too much so that I can lean into wellness. I can do self-care. I can relax. I can hike in the mountains. I can care for myself. Right now I have to allocate a lot more energy to self-care.
The last point I'll make is self-care is at the top of your list as a Black creator. Self-care specific to wellness because of all of the things that are going on right now. In order for me to navigate the challenges of building online, which is very ego-driven, which is challenging, which can be scary, I have to make sure that I'm taking care of myself. It is non-negotiable. It's absolutely the number one thing.
Learn more about Michelle Jackson's work on the Creators Getting Paid website and check out her podcast by the same name. Her Colorado tourism website is called Square State Colorado. Follow her on Threads and join her newsletter.
Which of Michelle's recommendations resonate the most with you? Share your thoughts in the comments!
